Talk:Example: dual debug page (SSO Simulator)

Nonstandard capitalization of page title

Is there a good reason why the standard page title "SSO Simulator example: dual debug page" was changed to have nonstandard title case? Note that the wiki standard is to avoid title case. This is documented at Article title on the Guidelines page. Since "SSO Simulator" seems to be treated like a proper noun in the documentation, it seemed reasonable to capitalize "Simulator", but the rest of the words are common nouns and thus should not be capitalized. The SSO Simulator Sign-In Pages article has a similar issue.

I know there are many pages with titles that don't follow the wiki guidelines, but it will take some time to clean them up. It would be helpful if we stopped creating more nonstandard pages, especially when it is done by renaming a correctly named page. -- Aebrown 17:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

To be honest I was not familiar with the standard of using lower case for titles except for the first word and proper nouns. The original title "Example: Dual Debug Page" was chosen mainly for how it would show up on the Category:Community Services page with all examples clumped together in the E's due to the initial word, "Example" rather than being lumped with the jumble of links in the S's. But I can see your concern about the title being too generic and if we need to have SSO Simulator example prefixing the names then so be it. Even the lower case "e" for example makes sense according to the standard.
You can control the sort order of a page within a category by using the syntax [[Category:Community Services|Example: Dual Debug Page]]. That way the page will sort on the category page as if it started with E, rather than S.
Another option, which is probably the better way to go, is to give the pages a title such as "Example: dual debug page (SSO Simulator)". That has a couple of benefits: you don't have to worry about the sort order on the category page, and you can use a nifty link shortcut by typing [[Example: dual debug page (SSO Simulator)|]] (note the pipe at the end), which will display as "Example: dual debug page" but will link to "Example: dual debug page (SSO Simulator)".
We just formed a wiki council which should be able to give some guidance on how we want to treat such naming conventions. I'll raise this issue with them and see what they think. -- Aebrown 21:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
As for the portion of the tile following the colon, I originally just made it capitalized because it just didn't feel right not to. But having read our standard and that of wikipedia my gut feel is that these are proper nouns. The intent is to have a number of examples and not just this single one. And I see people referring to THE Dual Debug Page example or THE Console Pages example. And that rings with why it didn't look right to have them lower case even though I didn't have a reason for it at the time. Thoughts? -- Boydmr 19:59, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand how these are proper nouns. To my way of thinking, the only way these can be considered proper nouns is if you say that they are proper nouns because they are article titles. But that's just circular reasoning. The best test is how you would use the term in a sentence in the body of an article. Would you write something like "these instructions will help you create a dual debug page" or "these instructions will help you create a Dual Debug Page"? If you can honestly answer the latter, then go ahead and treat it like a proper noun, but otherwise you need to treat it as a common noun and not capitalize it. -- Aebrown 21:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
Good points. I'll change it tomorrow. Thanks for explaining things so thoughtfully. -- Boydmr 22:47, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
This page was last modified on 29 June 2010, at 10:26.

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