Excess Budget funds stake sweep

[jdlessley]

That's interesting, because I got a letter notice, but it did not include the rates. I'll have to ask my stake clerk to see what he got.

The amounts are at the top of the second page after the end of the main 'letter'. Does your letter have more than one page? Does it mention an 'enclosure'?

When I first got the notice on 9 November it was one page. After seeing your post today I went to the OCL and the full three pages are there.

[cjbeckert]

I hope the issue of finance clerks not being able to view the 9 Nov notice is simply a system glitch that will be corrected soon. As a stake finance clerk, this is critical information needed to stay on top of finances and to advise stake and ward leaders. I can view many other notices on subjects not directly related to finance (2024 Youth Theme & Song, Submitting Digital Annual Histories, ASL classes, etc.) where clerks are not listed in the distribution, yet there they are. I don't mind these, they're helpful for overall situation awareness on issues that may indirectly involve finance clerks.

I've created a GSC trouble ticket in LCR to address the problem. Hopefully the problem will get fixed soon or, at the very least, explain the reason for the oversight. Maybe if additional finance clerks submit trouble tickets CHQ will become aware of how widespread the access problem to the 9 Nov notice is and its impact?

[BlairEsplin]

Despite reading letters and comments over and over I am still confused about how excess funds are calculated and where they will be taken from.

Our stake did not have anything taken last January and I’m not sure why that was either.

The letters say that the excess funds will be taken from Stake accounts. Is that to be understood as only the Stake account and not ward accounts? The letter also says that you can see the stake budget allotment on the Q4 budget allotment report. My question, can the stake as an individual unit not including the wards keep 50% of the total stake allotment which includes the wards share?

For example, if the entire stake budget allotment for 2023 was $90,000 could the stake in its individual account keep $45,000? Do ward carryovers factor into the equation?

[jpjones~ogr]

Despite reading letters and comments over and over I am still confused about how excess funds are calculated and where they will be taken from.

Our stake did not have anything taken last January and I’m not sure why that was either.

The letters say that the excess funds will be taken from Stake accounts. Is that to be understood as only the Stake account and not ward accounts? The letter also says that you can see the stake budget allotment on the Q4 budget allotment report. My question, can the stake as an individual unit not including the wards keep 50% of the total stake allotment which includes the wards share?

For example, if the entire stake budget allotment for 2023 was $90,000 could the stake in its individual account keep $45,000? Do ward carryovers factor into the equation?

I recommend reading Church IT system (finance, membership, etc.) notices as generalized summaries, instead of like scientific research papers. Quite a while back I learned to avoid reading between the lines for unspecified detail, except to understand the spirit of rules. Over time, local auditor comments, Church website instruction, and stake finance clerks have/has occasionally filled in gaps and updated perspectives. I even look forward to audit exceptions because we get to learn.

Though the potential for returning local unit (Stake and Ward) funds has apparently been around for a while, this software automation of it is very new, so implementation glitches should be expected. Then, if glitches seem to impact your unit call Global Services for support and resolution. IT folks dedicated to finance and membership systems have consistently been very caring and helpful.

Our stake seems to know or at least feel that funds sweeps shouldn't impact wards because they distributed some to us recently. They're trying to ensure enough money is available for a super youth activity next year. Since we have more than a couple CPA's and advanced IT folks in stake leadership, I expect they've made appropriate inquiries to guide actions.

[BrianEdwards]

For example, if the entire stake budget allotment for 2023 was $90,000 could the stake in its individual account keep $45,000? Do ward carryovers factor into the equation?

I feel the letter covers this question in the "Budget Retention Limit" section. There's two aspects to me: (1) How much is the max? (2) Is carrying over the max amount correct for us?

For (1), the letter speaks about stake budget end-of-year balances, and adjustments that would be made. There is no mention of ward budget balances affecting potential stake adjustments, simply adjustments based on the end-of-year amount in the stake balance. Paragraphs 3 & 4 are what I feel apply, and my reading is that in your example scenario, $45000 would be the max carryover allowed.

For (2), the letter also gives counsel that neither stakes nor wards should retain significant portions of the budget allowance received. I know we all have many reasons why we feel it appropriate to max out our carryover, and there's nothing wrong with that since Stake Presidents are given that discretion. But if maxing out the carryover is a yearly occurrence, perhaps a re-think of the types of expenses being incurred, would help align with the general counsel of not retaining significant portions of the budget allowance (instead of always defaulting to hitting the max carryover amount). Again, this is all decided at the local level.

[keeganjh]

Based on the first sweep from last year and seeing this again for 2024 here are my thoughts as Stake Clerk. We are being taught and encouraged to plan and prepare a budget. That budget should be prayerfully considered and funds allocated in the system prior to each year end. Then the church will “sweep” 50% of any remaining funds that have NOT been allocated to specific budget line items for 2024. It’s as simple as that. Plan, prepare, and stick to your budget. If it was a money issue there wouldn’t have been a 16% increase this year. It’s not a money thing, it’s a planning thing. I would even go as far as to say that the church is setting the example at the stake level and the stake then needs to set the same example at the individual unit level. While that has not been explicitly outlined that may be a best practice.

[BlairEsplin]

I called the global service center this morning. I asked a lot of questions and went over a lot of scenarios. What was told boils down to the following.

The stake with all of its units can only carry over 50% of the total budget allotment. The year end balance includes the stake account and all unit accounts. If there is an excess of more than 50% the money will be taken out of the stake account. If the amount taken from the stake account creates a deficit in the stake account, wards will have to transfer money to the stake to cover the negative balance since the wards were to have already transferred their excess to the stake account.

Whether this is correct or not I can not say but this is what I was told.

[johnshaw]

Based on the first sweep from last year and seeing this again for 2024 here are my thoughts as Stake Clerk. We are being taught and encouraged to plan and prepare a budget. That budget should be prayerfully considered and funds allocated in the system prior to each year end. Then the church will “sweep” 50% of any remaining funds that have NOT been allocated to specific budget line items for 2024. It’s as simple as that. Plan, prepare, and stick to your budget. If it was a money issue there wouldn’t have been a 16% increase this year. It’s not a money thing, it’s a planning thing. I would even go as far as to say that the church is setting the example at the stake level and the stake then needs to set the same example at the individual unit level. While that has not been explicitly outlined that may be a best practice.

100% - I ran into an issue as a stake clerk with many Bishops that claimed they were 'saving for a rainy day' - When you think that most of our Bishops and Bishoprics are NOT necessarily LARGE CORPORATE ENTERPRISE manages of budgets they think like a 'family' thinks. The instinct isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when you combine it with the idea that most (through my observation) wards / stakes think of the money as an expense account it becomes a huge problem.

In addition to Planning, we need to get the idea that orgs don't have a certain amount of $$ for the year, but they have $$ per activity and those activities need to be planned ahead of time and the $ associated with those plans. As does a stake. In fact, I have no idea how a stake even knows what to give wards without those things implemented by wards.....

It's like we're going around saying.... well, it FEELS like I should do this... it feels like this ward needs this... etc... Lets do better

[greggo]

I called the global service center this morning. I asked a lot of questions and went over a lot of scenarios. What was told boils down to the following.

The stake with all of its units can only carry over 50% of the total budget allotment. The year end balance includes the stake account and all unit accounts. If there is an excess of more than 50% the money will be taken out of the stake account. If the amount taken from the stake account creates a deficit in the stake account, wards will have to transfer money to the stake to cover the negative balance since the wards were to have already transferred their excess to the stake account.

Whether this is correct or not I can not say but this is what I was told.

This is the exact conclusion that the person I asked at the GSC and I came to around the same time you did. But two days ago, I got a different answer from the next GSC person I talked to. Their answer was that, from the most recent training they received, the ward budgets aren't affected - meaning that the 50% cap on the carryover only pertains to the stake budget and doesn't include the ward budgets.

I'm working off the assumption that the 2nd person is probably mistaken, but I'd like to know if other stake/financial clerks have gotten any other "official" communication to the contrary (or if any church employees involved with the pending sweeps are monitoring and can comment). I'm inclined to just allow the sweep to happen rather than transfer the excess myself, but our stake has a special circumstance that is currently being reviewed to keep more than the 50%.

[greggo]

I received the answer to my question from the GSD (after they consulted with the church finance dept.)…

It turns out that the calculation of the amount that will be swept is not either of the cases that I described.

My conclusion was correct that the 50% is on the total stake budget (including ward budgets); however, the sweep is only looking at how much is remaining in the stake’s budget only (not including the ward budgets).

So, for example, if the total stake allotment for 2023 is $50,000, and the total amount remaining at the end of the year for all stake/ward budgets is $40,000, but the amount in the stake only budget is $10,000, then the amount to be swept will be nothing – since $10,000 is less than $25,000 (50% x $50,000).

It doesn’t make much sense to me why the sweep only pertains to a portion of what’s remaining when it’s based on 50% of the total allotment…but there it is.

I also learned that they are expecting the sweep to happen on Jan 15th.