HT/VT Reporting Website Overview

[brado426]

Perhaps it would help if you took a look at this live demo.

In this demo, you can report for our good fake friend, Erik Ashton. The first part of Erik's e-mail address is "Erik"

Don't worry about the license warning. I'll fix that later.

Click on this link to report for Erik Ashton using the new menu with Hierarchical View (Enter 'Erik' for the e-mail address.)

https://www.htreporting.com/htrepbeta/R ... pyear=2007

Click on this link to report for Erik Ashton using the old menu without Hierarchical View (Enter 'Erik' for the e-mail address.)

https://www.htreporting.com/htrep/Repor ... pyear=2007

It seems to me that the teacher can easily tell that there are additional options in the hierarchical view because when they mouse-over the standard contact type, the custom contact types pop up quickly. I think the menu backgrounds need to be darker because they kind of merge in with the background as it is now making it hard to read.

Brad O.

[russellhltn]

The new menu is prettier, especially with the icons. But for data entry, I like the old drop-down one better (if we can get it ordered and indented to show structure). In fact I ran into problems with the new menu. If I try to mouse "direct" from "Not Visited" to "Too Busy", I cut across "Visited" and loose my menu. It took a sec for me to realize what was wrong. Granted, I've seen it before with the Windows "Start" menu, but the fact it tripped me up and caused a few retries bothers me.

Another question - do we need to create a space for explanation text? Something as a context sensitive help to explain the options? For example, I saw "too busy". Who was too busy? The teacher, the companion or the family? Granted that might be fixed by changing the title a bit, but anyone setting up their contact types might want to give a little explanation as to what they mean.

Also I just wanted to make sure the question of disallowing standard contact types wasn't lost. In the example given, the leader might want to disallow selecting "Not Visited" and force the teachers to select an explanation for why the family wasn't visited. That's all dependent on the Contact Type schema that the leader comes up with and what they want.

[brado426]

The new menu is prettier, especially with the icons. But for data entry, I like the old drop-down one better (if we can get it ordered and indented to show structure). In fact I ran into problems with the new menu. If I try to mouse "direct" from "Not Visited" to "Too Busy", I cut across "Visited" and loose my menu. It took a sec for me to realize what was wrong. Granted, I've seen it before with the Windows "Start" menu, but the fact it tripped me up and caused a few retries bothers me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of the problem you are mentioning is the colors. The colors of the menu are too close to the colors of the background making it kind of difficult to see the new menu when it pops up. I'll at least try to change those colors and see if that makes it clearer.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is impossible to do a hierarchical view like this with the old dropdown... I don't think you can even have different styled text in the old dropdown list. I think there are additional things that can be done to make this AJAX dropdown easier to understand and use. Remember, this is my first try at using these AJAX controls, so there are still plenty of tweaks available.

Another question - do we need to create a space for explanation text? Something as a context sensitive help to explain the options? For example, I saw "too busy". Who was too busy? The teacher, the companion or the family? Granted that might be fixed by changing the title a bit, but anyone setting up their contact types might want to give a little explanation as to what they mean.

That is a good point. Explanation text could be added.

Also I just wanted to make sure the question of disallowing standard contact types wasn't lost. In the example given, the leader might want to disallow selecting "Not Visited" and force the teachers to select an explanation for why the family wasn't visited. That's all dependent on the Contact Type schema that the leader comes up with and what they want.

There is currently no way to disallow the standard contact types. In my opinion, the standard Contact Types should always be available as a fallback option in case the presidency doesn't create a Custom Contact Type that applies to every situation. I thought the Custom Contact Types were supposed to optional.

Brad O.

[russellhltn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of the problem you are mentioning is the colors.

I don't think so. The problem was I was mousing from "point a" to "point b" and while in-transit the menu changed under me. I could fix it only by traveling "square" - going horizontally until I was in the sub menu and then vertically until I got the desired selection. (This is where colors would help in keeping me "in the square", but it's already a problem.) The fix is probably in the timing to make sure things don't change in the fraction of a second that it takes me to move the mouse. But then what's good for one person may be still too quick for another (especially if they are using some kind of clumsy mouse because they are mobile.) and yet the delay bothers someone else. I'm not sure as there's a timing factor that keeps everyone happy. Anyone know of any standards in this area?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is impossible to do a hierarchical view like this with the old dropdown.

You can't force the order and use indenting?

There is currently no way to disallow the standard contact types. In my opinion, the standard Contact Types should always be available as a fallback option in case the presidency doesn't create a Custom Contact Type that applies to every situation. I thought the Custom Contact Types were supposed to optional.

I can kinda see the point. But with the Ajax menus, it takes an extra mouse movement to get there and I think it encourages members to use only the standard types.

[thedqs]

I don't think so. The problem was I was mousing from "point a" to "point b" and while in-transit the menu changed under me. I could fix it only by traveling "square" - going horizontally until I was in the sub menu and then vertically until I got the desired selection. (This is where colors would help in keeping me "in the square", but it's already a problem.) The fix is probably in the timing to make sure things don't change in the fraction of a second that it takes me to move the mouse. But then what's good for one person may be still too quick for another (especially if they are using some kind of clumsy mouse because they are mobile.) and yet the delay bothers someone else. I'm not sure as there's a timing factor that keeps everyone happy. Anyone know of any standards in this area?

Timing standard no, but I have seen a 1/2 sec delay for the event in other programs. The only problem with web programming is that you cannot delaythe event just hold it. It might be possible to add a timer (that might be difficult any way and is most likely browser specific) and then have the time shoot an event off when the 1/2 sec from the mouse leaving event happens and then check the position of the mouse to see if it is in the submenu.

You can't force the order and use indenting?

Don't know about the AJax controls but you can force order and add spaces for indenting, though that I personally think is very bad because not all browsers will support the spaces and then you get weird indenting.

I can kinda see the point. But with the Ajax menus, it takes an extra mouse movement to get there and I think it encourages members to use only the standard types.

I don't know, but I think that it only accepts the leaf nodes as clickable so they'd have to select one of the sub menus. And even if they did use the standard types they would be getting the same information that they do now anyway. It would be the extra information about why that they would start getting from this site.

[russellhltn]

I don't know, but I think that it only accepts the leaf nodes as clickable so they'd have to select one of the sub menus.

The way it's currently implemented you do not have to go down to the last leaf node. That was one of the things I tested.

Question: What is lds.org using for it's top level menu? I was just there looking at something and could NOT duplicate my issue on their menu. I deliberately went slow and even highlighted some other top level selections, but the leaf menu stayed in place until I got there. Moving to a new top level selection and hovering felt like a 1/4 second delay to open/change and a good full second to close if I moved completely off.

And even if they did use the standard types they would be getting the same information that they do now anyway. It would be the extra information about why that they would start getting from this site.

Keep in mind we're now talking about the interface that the teachers use, so we're no longer talking about leaders that want to get information, but in "herding cats" mode.

If some teachers faithfully use the custom categories and other's don't, then the statistics don't mean much. You're not getting a clear picture.

[brado426]

Ok guys.... I'm going to make some changes and ask for your opinion again shortly.

I really appreciate your suggestions. They are well taken.

Brad O.

[bkh8-p40]

Is there a way, after you change the hometeaching companionships, to manually send to all companionships the new assignments? Or do you need to wait until the next scheduled interval.

[brado426]

Ben,

You do not have the ability to manually send global report-request e-mails at will. Since multiple Presidency members have admin access to the system, there needs to be some limitations otherwise, the e-mails could get sent out several times per month.

When adding the ability to send an e-mail to all those who had not reported, we had to be very careful to ensure that there were controls on this process. This is why it only allows you to use this function between the 1st and 7th of the month and only allows you to run the process once per month.

Brad O.

[thedqs]

When adding the ability to send an e-mail to all those who had not reported, we had to be very careful to ensure that there were controls on this process. This is why it only allows you to use this function between the 1st and 7th of the month and only allows you to run the process once per month.

Otherwise you could get spammed at least 3 times if not more if the president or a counselor forgot he already sent one. Though Brad didn't you mention before in this thread that there was a work around for that?