11 year old primary children's transition

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amybryan
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11 year old primary children's transition

Postby amybryan » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:31 pm

I can not find anywhere in the new material how 11 year old primary children are supposed to transition with the new schedule starting in 2019.

Take an 11 year old that turns 12 in June...

Under our current schedule in 2018, they attend the Sunday school class for 11 year olds all year long. Last hour, they attend primary (singing/sharing time) until they turn 12 in June at which time they go to YM/YW.

Under the 2019 schedule, that same youth that turns 12 in June...

The youth will attend Primary each Sunday until they turn 12 in June (50 minutes which will consist of lesson time and singing time).

When they turn 12 in June, the 2nd and 4th Sundays they will go to YM/YW and start attending Mutual mid-week.

What about the 1st and 3rd Sundays after they turn 12?? I can not find any guideline for them.
Do they advance to the 12 year old Sunday school class half way through the year and basically repeat that same 12 year old class the upcoming year?
Do they just stay in Primary the whole year? (doing lesson time with their primary class and singing time with them as well).
Do they attend their usual primary Sunday school class the first 20 minutes then go interrupt/join the 12 year old class during singing time in primary? (that seems unlikely)

I also don't see recommendations on if they should still participate in the primary program.

davesudweeks
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby davesudweeks » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:05 am

My wife is stake primary president in our stake. She discussed this question with a member of our stake presidency earlier this week - our stake is seeing further direction. I believe all our wards will have combined 12-13 classes so everyone will repeat at least 1 year anyway. The lessons will change from year to year so it won't be like they are taking the same thing over.

Others may differ, but in her nearly 30 years experience in primary and cub scouts in many areas in the country, my wife told me that 12 year olds have never participated in the primary program. If they turn 12 after the primary program, they are still in primary and participate.

russellhltn
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby russellhltn » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:57 pm

Taking a "legalistic" approach to the instructions:

Handbook 2: 11.4.3 under "Children Age 12" indicates that children are to go to Aaronic Priesthood/Young Women class during "Sharing time". However, under the new schedule "Sharing Time" only appears in the sentence "The Outline for Sharing Time will be discontinued." Everything else in the new schedule refers to "singing time and classes". So, it appears the requirement that 12 year old children attend with the older age groups for at least some of the time is gone.

Handbook 2: 11.4.3 also says "During Primary class time, new 12-year-olds normally attend their Valiant 11 Primary class until the end of the year. However, the bishop and the presidents of the Primary, Young Men, Young Women, and Sunday School may counsel together to determine if these 12-year-olds would benefit more from attending the Sunday School class for 12- and 13-year-olds. As these leaders counsel together, they consider the needs of the children and the times of the year when individual children will reach age 12. Their decision applies to all young men and women who reach age 12 that year."

My personal interpretation is that by default the 12 year olds stay with Primary until the end of the year, but local leaders may decide to advance them. But there's no reason to bounce them back and forth depending on the week.
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eblood66
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby eblood66 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:33 pm

russellhltn wrote:Handbook 2: 11.4.3 under "Children Age 12" indicates that children are to go to Aaronic Priesthood/Young Women class during "Sharing time". However, under the new schedule "Sharing Time" only appears in the sentence "The Outline for Sharing Time will be discontinued." Everything else in the new schedule refers to "singing time and classes". So, it appears the requirement that 12 year old children attend with the older age groups for at least some of the time is gone.

If we're being legalistic, then Handbook 2: 8.11 says "priesthood holders attend their quorum meetings." So I don't think you can just say that if there is no sharing time then they don't attend their quorum meetings. There is a similar statement in Handbook 2: 10.6.2 for the YW.

Fundamentally, there is no obvious single way to adapt the new schedule to the new 12 year olds. Somehow this area seems to have been missed, at least the directions we've been given so far. I'm assuming some direction will be forthcoming.

Personally, I think attending priesthood quorum meeting and YW classes is important for new 12 year olds so that they can be fellowshipped into their new organization. Without that they won't really feel part of the youth organizations. I really, really doubt they will continue to attend primary on the 2nd and 4th weeks. I'm guessing they will start attending the 12 year old Sunday School classes on the 1st and 3rd weeks and will stay there until the January following their 13th birthday. But I could be wrong. They might alternate between primary and YM/YW.

nutterb
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby nutterb » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:45 pm

We discussed this wIth our ward council (another way of saying, nothing official here) and concluded that the choice should reside with the child first, with the parents' guidance. If that means sometimes in primary and sometimes not, so be it.

The vast majority of the time, we expect the child will just want to move up to the youth programs. I can see maybe one child in our ward in the next 6 years that might be hesitant to move up immediately. We will cross that bridge when we get there, and rely heavily on the parents to help develop the strategy.

The only hole we have in the strategy is a shrinking valiant 11 class.not much of an issue for us, though, since our valiant 11's meet are joined with the valiant 12's. That's a scenario we would discuss how to handle based on the children in the class, their maturity, and the spacing of birthdays.

This is an area where I don't think a proscribed policy is anywhere near as useful as a discussion of philosophies

russellhltn
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:12 am

eblood66 wrote:If we're being legalistic, then Handbook 2: 8.11 says "priesthood holders attend their quorum meetings."

Yes, it does. But that only applies to ordained deacons. I don't see anything that would apply to "prospective deacons". That verbiage (as well as 10.6.2 for the YW) is found in the context of the YM/YW program as whole, not in how 12 year olds should be dealt with.

As for ordaining 12 yo to deacon, the Handbook says "may" I don't see any sense of urgency in doing so. So, it strikes me as odd to ordain him if he's not attending the quorum.

eblood66 wrote:Fundamentally, there is no obvious single way to adapt the new schedule to the new 12 year olds.

I stand by the personal opinion that with the demise of a defined "sharing time" the automatic move to YM/YW has disappeared (pending further light and knowledge). But local leaders have the option to decide as long as it applies to all 12 year olds for the year.

As for which way it should go, I see issues both ways. I find the idea of them being advanced from Primary, given a certificate of recognition and then still attend Primary as if nothing changed (as called out by the Handbook) to be a bit odd.

On the other hand, what I'd think what would be less disruptive to the child is to remain with Primary and advance in January with their peers - just like they've always done. Also, if you advance the children on the 12th birthday, you're going to have a pretty empty Valiant 11 by the end of the year.
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:14 am

nutterb wrote:We discussed this wIth our ward council (another way of saying, nothing official here) and concluded that the choice should reside with the child first, with the parents' guidance.

That seems like an interesting interpretation of the handbook where "Their decision applies to all young men and women who reach age 12 that year."
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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby lajackson » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:15 am

eblood66 wrote:Fundamentally, there is no obvious single way to adapt the new schedule to the new 12 year olds. Somehow this area seems to have been missed, at least [in] the directions we've been given so far. I'm assuming some direction will be forthcoming.

I have reason to believe that you assume correctly. I have spoken with several other stake Primary presidents who have communicated with Church headquarters, and I know that headquarters is aware of the need for clarification.

This is a big enough issue that I would not be surprised if additional instructions are being prepared, and I expect that they will come out before the end of the year, since everyone knows they will be needed beginning in January. I think we will have them by then, although I admit that it is difficult to be patient long enough for them to arrive.

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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby lajackson » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:47 am

January will be a busy month for those who will be turning 12 during the coming year. The First Presidency has released a letter dated today (December 14, 2018) that outlines the transition process for those turning 11. The letter is to be read in sacrament meeting.

To answer the specific question that was asked here, the Valiant 11 class will be discontinued. Primary children will move to the YM/YW programs in January of the year they will turn 12, beginning next month.

There are a number of other significant changes as well. Because this is a letter from the First Presidency to leaders down to and including ward and branch councils, I will not say more here for the moment. I will leave it to the bishops to make those announcements by reading the letter in sacrament meeting. I expect that the news media, particularly the Church News, will publish articles shortly.

This is a big change. There is a new prophet in Israel.

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Re: 11 year old primary children's transition

Postby lajackson » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:56 am

lajackson wrote:Because this is a letter from the First Presidency to leaders down to and including ward and branch councils, I will not say more here for the moment. I will leave it to the bishops to make those announcements by reading the letter in sacrament meeting. I expect that the news media, particularly the Church News, will publish articles shortly.

Nevermind. An email has been sent to every member of the Church announcing the change.

Change takes place in January of the year a young man or woman turns 12, 14, or 16. The year they turn 12 they move to YM or YW in January and the Young Men may be ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood at that time, based on worthiness interviews, sustaining in sacrament meeting and the following of the current process. YM and YW transition to their Miamaid classes and teachers quorums in January of the year they turn 14, and again YM may be ordained teachers at that point, based on following the current process of interviewing, sustaining, etc. The same occurs in January of the year youth turn 16.

Of interest, although youth transition in January of the year they turn 16, the First Presidency has pointed out that they should not date until they actually turn 16 years of age.


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