Kindoo Access Control System

[waymana]

I will try to answer a few questions from previous threads. Please know that this functionality for automatic access synchronized with Church systems is currently being piloted and tested and so we are still working things out. Your comments are appreciated.

"Will ward callings (bishops) in buildings for the stake that do not have Kindoo installed take up a license?" No, the synchronization is turned on by the FM for each building and so a building that does not have the synchronization turned on would not take up those licenses.

"Why does the Facilities Manager have to specify which callings will receive automatic access? The system that integrates with Kindoo is only available to Facilities Managers. The FM will provide a spreadsheet to the stake president and stake kindoo manager and the stake will specify which callings should receive automatic access and then the FM will make those changes in the system.

Is it possible to override the synchronization? Yes, the synchronization can be turned on and off for a building. The Stake Kindoo manager can also override any assignment in Kindoo afterwards. So if you had one member that was part of a calling that you didn't want to have access you could remove them in Kindoo after the fact. The unused license goes back into the stake pool and can be reassigned to another calling.​ If the stake does not want to use the calling integration functionality all individuals will need to be given access manually.

Have stakes who already use the system tied the Kindoo manager assignment to particular callings, such as building scheduler, stake building rep, or high councilor? It is recommended that the Kindoo manager be either the Stake building rep or a stake clerk and is someone that is comfortable using the technology. It can be whomever the stake president decides. You can have more than one Kindoo manager in a stake but there should be one person that oversees everything. As access is managed at the stake level, it is recommended that there only a few managers per stake. In the past, all callings needed to be managed manually. With the ability to assign specific callings automatic access the Kindoo manager will only have to manage callings that are exceptions and then temporary guest access. If more managers are needed, one option would be to have the stake building rep and the building coordinators to have access and they coordinate how best to use the licenses. If you have too many managers it can get challenging to coordinate between them to make sure there are sufficient licenses. Again, stakes can request additional licenses from the FM group after testing the system for a few months and so if there is a need for additional licenses, they can be purchased.

Does the automatic synchronization only apply to licenses? I hope the schedules can be applied differently to each user or ward? The synchronization applies only to the licenses and they will be given default access rules. The Access Rules can be changed in Kindoo afterwards by the Stake Kindoo Manager.

[russellhltn]

Does the automatic synchronization only apply to licenses? I hope the schedules can be applied differently to each user or ward? Thinking through situations such as how wards have different assigned weeknights for youth activities, or how Valiant Activity Leaders may have different meeting times for boys vs girls.

That's getting granular to a point where it's likely to be a hassle. While it may sound like a good idea, there's probably going to be too many exceptions and it becomes a headache to manage. Is there really a problem of people accessing the building "out of turn"?

[russellhltn]

Not all callings are available for synchronization right now. Other callings such as youth advisers and materials center (library) specialists maybe added in the future.

I'm curious why all standard positions are not available.

[greenwoodkl]

Does the automatic synchronization only apply to licenses? I hope the schedules can be applied differently to each user or ward? Thinking through situations such as how wards have different assigned weeknights for youth activities, or how Valiant Activity Leaders may have different meeting times for boys vs girls.

Does the automatic synchronization only apply to licenses? I hope the schedules can be applied differently to each user or ward? The synchronization applies only to the licenses and they will be given default access rules. The Access Rules can be changed in Kindoo afterwards by the Stake Kindoo Manager.

That's getting granular to a point where it's likely to be a hassle. While it may sound like a good idea, there's probably going to be too many exceptions and it becomes a headache to manage. Is there really a problem of people accessing the building "out of turn"?

I suppose it depends on how open or granular the "default access rules" are that are linked to the automatic sync. The example provided on this wiki page: Step 2: Define Access Rules provides a fairly granular access rule for Activity Days. If such a granular rule were applied across multiple wards in the same building that are assigned different days or times, that was the hypothetical concern I was contemplating.

• Redmond Activity Days Leaders
  • Users can enter the meetinghouse Tuesdays between 2:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m.

[russellhltn]

From different meetings, the problem I hear about conventional keys:

• They're hard to track.
• Easy to duplicate.
• People hold on to them after release.
• They get stolen and then used in the dead of night for mischief.

Kindoo will solve the first three and most of the 4th, and a basic 6AM - 10:30PM schedule will solve the last.

Problems I'm NOT hearing is someone entered on their "off" day. I'd think that's more of a calendaring issue then a access issue. On a related note, I'm getting the feeling that most units have stopped using restrictions in the calendar to control activity days and just let everyone schedule. If some toes are stepped on, then an admin is notified and things are worked out.

The problem with granularity is now there's more work if something upsets the balance. Perhaps an activity day is rescheduled because of a holiday. If Kindoo is too granular, than an admin has to go in and adjust everything. If it's "all reasonable hours", then no problem. While it's nice to understand what the tool can do, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it that way.

[greenwoodkl]

It would seem to me the technology behind Kindoo shouldn't have many or any technical limitations on the number of users who could access a building. The exterior door hardware should be a fixed cost. The smartphones and app installation are user provided. The variable cost appears to be in the purchased licenses. Are these software licenses significantly more expensive than the physical electronic key fobs?

The initial set of licenses allocated to a stake is meant to be a reset to the security of the buildings. Using the initial set of licenses for a few months and you can then review access logs and see who is or isn't accessing the buildings and request additional licenses. Just because someone currently has a fob doesn't mean that they need to have regular access going forward. Often if members only access the building on Sunday, after one person is in the building the exterior doors are unlocked. If someone only needs to open the building once every few months for an event or ward cleaning a stake Kindoo manager can grant them access temporarily when needed. The licenses are paid for out of the FM group budget and not from the ward budget. Once Kindoo licenses are purchased and associated with a stake, they are permanent and cannot be returned. As the licenses are permanent, we just want to be cautious of purchasing too many that won't be used.

By my recollection the General Handbook is not specific as to when or which members should access the meetinghouse to fulfill their callings. What criteria should be used to determine if a member or standard calling should have regular access to the meetinghouse? It seems rather arbitrary. There seems to be an assumption on some level that most members or callings could fulfill their meetinghouse access needs on Sunday when the building is largely unlocked? Is there a goal or vision to lower meetinghouse use outside of Sunday meeting blocks? It could take some trial and error for a stake to cycle through different combinations of 20 callings per ward to find "who is or isn't accessing the buildings". I hope that the stakes who have current key fob logs available from their FM group use them to make an educational guess on their initial configuration.

My ward meets in our Stake Center with 4 wards plus the stake. There is not much time where the building is not in use on Sunday. For a hypothetical example, one of our organization leaders may have difficulty finding time on Sunday to organize their closet without disturbing another ward. They could choose to come during the week rather than disturb another ward. So in concept I could imagine that our building may find more weekday access use than a unit who is the only one assigned to their meetinghouse.

Other hypotheticals, I could see an attempt to minimize license assignment by only providing Kindoo access to organization presidents, but not their counselors or secretaries. Based on delegation or personalities, Ward 1 may find their RS 2nd Counselor lives closest to the building and becomes the point person who does the majority of non-Sunday access at the building. Ward 2 may find their RS 1st Counselor takes on the bulk of non-Sunday usage. If only the RS President callings in the building were assigned a license, these counselors would have to do extra work to get a license assignment change or obtain frequent "temporary access". Then a presidency gets replaced and the dynamics change again. Youth advisors and specialists may be more available to open the building for a weeknight youth activity before the Bishopric and YW Presidency. There are so many variables, it may be hard to standardize across a stake.

I could anticipate a member with a standard calling but without regular access becoming frustrated. They could find a friend or organization leader in the ward to meet them with their smartphone at the building. They could play a telephone, text, or email game trying to figure out what is Kindoo and who is the stake manager to get temporary access.

I don't envy the FM groups or stake Kindoo managers for the logistical and cultural impacts of this transition.

[ELHawkes]

While it's nice to understand what the tool can do, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it that way.

I don't envy the FM groups or stake Kindoo managers for the logistical and cultural impacts of this transition.

Our Brigham City Utah Stake transitioned from Physical Keys to the Sicunet - Open Cesamee electronic access system just over two years ago.
It supports both smart phones with the Open Cesamee app, and FOBs, and there are no additional fees for licences and the system can support up to 1500 users.
This system has worked very well and even though the smart phone app is the primary access, there are still around 7% of situations where the FOBs are needed.

Switching from Physical keys to an electronic system was fairly easy because both systems could be used while the transition was made. I can't imagine having to go from the Sicunet system to the Kindoo system overnight as both cannot co-exist.
I hope there is some consideration for keeping systems that are still new and that work well and still accomplish the same security upgrades over physical keys. I highly prefer to keep the Sicunet system after seeing all of the back and forth thoughts in this thread.
Is the millions that the Kindoo system will cost to roll out church wide along with all of the Incurred labor to manage it, out weigh what ever the current security problems are?

[waymana]

Over the past few years, the Church's technology teams have been evaluating several electronic building access solutions. While Sicunet has been installed in some locations, it does not meet the Church's standards for security and long-term direction for building access solutions and will be replaced. Kindoo is currently the only approved electronic building access in the United States and Canada.

We will update the tech wiki article that talks about access rules. Generally there should be two access rules for a building. One for leadership access that is set to always and then one for member access. There doesn't need to be an access for Activities Day leaders that is different than the regular member access. Temporary access can be more specific for a given day and time if someone needs access for an event. Many of these decisions are left up to the stake in consultation with the FM group.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/too ... s?lang=eng

We are just starting to rollout the automatic calling synchronization functionality. Until this point all access was managed manually. We started with the callings that were the most common to receive access. Additional callings may be added. Temporary or other calling access can be added through Kindoo directly.

Additional licenses can be purchased by the FM group the stake after the initial few months of learning to use Kindoo. The main concern is that we don't over purchase licenses when individuals don't use them or could be given access temporarily instead. If the stake has concerns or special circumstances they should talk with their facilities manager.

[waymana]

We have recently updated the Stake Kindoo Manager Instructions. https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/wi ... structions.

Please reply here or send me a private message if you have comments or questions.